About Last Night: The view from Coastal America

"Brian, The Life of" (familycar)
11/09/2016 at 14:40 • Filed to: politics

I haven’t posted much politically on Oppo over the course of this election cycle because I try to do my little part to (mostly) keep Oppo politics-free (this is a personal view, not my official Moderator view). That said, I will speak my heart here now and then move on. The surprise many of us are feeling today is the fault of people like me. I had a brutal moment of clarity last night, half drunk on Tito’s and cranberry, when one of my daughter’s who is away at college called me crying inconsolably because she was afraid her future was diminished because she is a woman in this new political reality. I managed to talk her out of her emotional tree but it was one of the hardest things I’ve had to do as a parent because I didn’t believe the words coming out of my mouth.

Then my moment of clarity hit when I realized a few things: Gary Johnson and Jill Stein had nothing to do with this. Xenophobia and misogyny had nothing to do with this. Traditional Right vs. Left platform/policy disagreements had nothing to do with this. We lost. Our party’s complacency did us in. We placed so much emphasis on Hillary and the righteous feeling of inevitability that we couldn’t see the forest for the trees. The rejection of our candidate says less about the rejection of the progressive platform and more about our complete inability to understand what we were up against and what their motivations were. Consider Maslow’s Hierarchy; the Left (whatever that means) in this country has been focused on the upper tiers without understanding that the BASE of the Right (whatever that means) has been telling us over and over with deeds and actions that they are still far more concerned with the lowest tiers. We didn’t get that because that is not the same concern in our “Coastal America.” We heard the words but missed the message. They were arguing fear but we heard hate and we smugly beat them over the head with it. Instead of trying to understand the irrational objections to our concerns, we shamed them for theirs.

As humans, we cannot live outside ourselves if we do not have the luxury to do so. If we are constantly concerned about how we are going to feed our kids and keep a roof over their heads, we are more likely to look for someone to blame because we can’t have that our parents took for granted than to empathize with others. We didn’t understand because from our perspective our America is already great. Theirs isn’t. I hope we all learn from this. I know I will. Empathy is literally our only hope to heal our divisions. Coming from the blue collar background that I do, I more than most should have extended it before now. I’ll never make that mistake again. I’m done with cynicism and am profoundly ashamed that I ever indulged it. There is no part of this country that is beyond redemption or undeserving of our respect and understanding.

No matter what we disagree about going forward, please know that I wish every single one of you nothing but happiness and peace.

DISCUSSION (49)

Party-vi > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 14:46

“Our party’s complacency did us in.”

Yep.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 14:51

I’d say the complacency was created by your party ramming a candidate the country’s been saying no to for the last decade down everyone’s throat.

EL_ULY > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 14:51

RIP progress.

My OPPO/LaLD homies, continue studying, working hard, and being good people. That apocalyptic orange turd cannot choose your personal outcome in life.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 14:51

We didn’t understand because from our perspective our America is already great. Theirs isn’t.

Thanks for this, it’s just about the most sense anything has made today.

EL_ULY > Out, but with a W - has found the answer
11/09/2016 at 14:55

His supporters here at work wouldn’t stop preaching that “our nation is a total disaster, we are in total ruins and civil war”.....

....the same people that get paid way too much for doing hardly anything and going home to the suburbs.

Tekamul > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 14:57

This is really well written, and matches a realization I’ve been coming to as the day wears on, after reading reactions from a lot of different corners.

Kinja'd!!!

This is the county-by-county map from 2012. The divide has thouroughly cemented itself as rural versus urban.

Urban dwellers have benefited greatly from the country’s advances in the tertiary sector (high skilled services and intangible goods). Rural dwellers’ quality of life has sunk at a steady pace for decades. I see it myself when I return to my home town, which is rarely, because everybody that could get out, did.

I don’t think Trump is going to solve any of rural America’s problems, but I’m certain rural America thought Clinton wasn’t going to solve them. She halfheartedly embraced a significantly higher minimum wage, and offered no real solutions for primary sector job loss. Trump didn’t either, but he was good at pointing fingers in the general direction of a scapegoat, which was apparently better than nothing.

I don’t think we’ll be in a better place 4 years from now, but I think there may be a little more understanding of opposing lifestyles. Because this is going to be hard on everyone.

ttyymmnn > Tekamul
11/09/2016 at 14:59

You are absolutely right, and the real shame here is that I honestly believe that Trump has no interest in helping the people who elected him. They will be left behind as he focuses on enriching corporate elites like himself. I expect there will be a lot of buyer’s remorse in the coming years.

Xyl0c41n3 > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 15:07

Except not everybody in “our party” (I say that loosely because I’ve never, ever been a straight ticket voter) WAS complacent.

A lot of the same things rural white America fears are the same things middle and lower middle class blacks, Latinos, Asians, Muslims, immigrants, etc. fear and worry about. Jobs (that pay enough), paying bills, crime, the cost of gasoline, going bankrupt after a single medical emergency or serious illness, paying for college, etc.

We really aren’t so different across the aisle, after all. But it’s still a little naive to say that racism and bigotry didn’t play a substantial role in this. When you are afraid of so many things, when you’re looking at a bunch of bills printed on pink sheets of paper or with angry red ink, the natural human inclination is to assuage your fear through placing blame on something or someone. And for so many people that choice (yes, hate is a choice) is to place the blame on that which is different from you, to place the blame on the other.

This election was a perfect example of that in so many ways.

Once again, hate was levied against the immigrants du jour: Muslims and Latinos. In generations past, the hate “flavor of the day” was the Chinese, the Irish, the Japanese, etc.

Once again, hate was levied against a minority population seeking equality: the LGBTQ community, specifically via marriage equality and trans restroom access. In generations past, it was interracial marriage that was verboten, and blacks, Latinos and Jews who couldn’t use certain bathrooms.

Once again, hate was levied against an entire gender: women. In generations past, it was our right to vote, own property or businesses, become educated, or control our own bodies which were prohibited from us. Today, it was reiterated to us that our bodies are objects of conquest for leering, jeering men who want to grab our pussies. Today it was that a “cunt” would never cease to be defined by anything other than her husband’s moral transgressions while that same woman’s opponent who has done the exact same thing in regards to cheating is being lauded for his “authenticity.”

Rural America is vastly white and vastly struggling; their concerns have largely been ignored or mocked. This much is true. But what’s ALSO true is that the concerns of numerous minority groups have been equally devalued. And, taken together, those minority groups outnumber rural whites.

It’s naive to say that hate of “the other” wasn’t as impactful on this election as it was.

ttyymmnn > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 15:12

Excellent analysis. A couple of weeks ago, I was watching Rachel Maddow on MSNBC. She was doing a hit job on Sarah Palin, perhaps deservedly, but in the process, she was dumping heaps of scorn on the people who support her, utterly dismissing their beliefs and values from her Liberal pulpit. It was an astonishing dismissal of people who simply don’t think the way she, a college-educated, city-dwelling elitist Liberal, thinks. I often discounted claims of Liberal elitism. After all, the Democratic Party was supposed to be the party of the Little Guy. But that elitism was on full display in this election, and it was ugly. As you said so eloquently, THAT is why we lost last night. The very electorate who should be supporting an allegedly populist platform have turned against the Democratic Party in shocking fashion, and it’s not a new trend. It was all there to be seen, but Democrats were so smug in their sense of rightness that they simply ignored it. The Democrats have some serious soul searching to do in the coming years. The Supreme Court, perhaps the most important aspect of this election, is lost for years. And much of the progress made on social justice and environmental protection are already under assault. It’s going to be a long two years until the mid-term elections, but the damage may be pretty well done by then.

Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer > EL_ULY
11/09/2016 at 15:13

You know, I was going to respond to the original post, since it actually seems like he’s willing to listen and not just demean and belittle anyone who did not vote for Hillary, and explain how I came to hold my nose, try not to puke, and vote for Trump. But it’s crap like this and your other reply in this thread that make me say “nope, just going to keep my mouth shut like so many others did this whole campaign”, because we’re painted as racist, bigot, homophobes, or uneducated rubes who couldn’t have any reason to vote for Trump (even if begrudgingly) than one of those. Look at that map and know that you are arguing against half of your country.

EL_ULY > Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer
11/09/2016 at 15:18

lol it doesn’t feel very good to be falsely labeled right? :]

But even if it went the other way, it means nothing if the individual doesn’t take personal responsibility and charge of their decisions. The oval office shouldn’t mean shit in anyone’s home

Chasaboo > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 15:18

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > EL_ULY
11/09/2016 at 15:18

Even when all objective measures point towards the opposite, people will cling to their beliefs. Theirs might not be a realistic world view, but it’s their reality nonetheless.

GhostZ > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 15:20

To put it in more empirical perspective, Hilary’s campaign was based on polling data, under the assumption that people who poll reflect people who vote. In the states she was favored to win, but lost (Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennslyvania) there were 5 to 7% error in polls, showing that polls and projects were completely unaware of what the actual political climate there looked like.

Is that complacency and hubris of the democrats thinking that a 3% lead in the polls was enough to win on? Probably. That’s the data backing up your theory here.

EDIT: And for more context, Brexit was a 4-5% polling error.

cazzyodo > ttyymmnn
11/09/2016 at 15:20

I’ve seen this as I travel around the country, seeing production plants we source from. I can understand where people in these areas are coming from with their concerns.

I cannot, however, fathom how they (mid-country/rural population) can place their faith in someone who epitomizes the exact opposite of their interests. Granted, they looked at it the classic South Park way (though in a more dire manner than the rest of the country already did):

Kinja'd!!!

EL_ULY > Out, but with a W - has found the answer
11/09/2016 at 15:22

indeed. Nobody has a right to tell them otherwise respectfully

ttyymmnn > cazzyodo
11/09/2016 at 15:23

But what was their option? Trump was a genius at painting Hillary in an unfavorable light (with ample help from Hillary herself), making her look like the enemy to their core values. And, in a certain sense, she was. They could identify with Trump, or at least his words, and they voted for him because there was nobody else. That’s why Hillary’s nomination was such a disaster, but the Dems were too smug to see it. It’s called hubris.

GhostZ > Tekamul
11/09/2016 at 15:26

It’s not just rural vs urban, but Educated vs Uneducated, White VS Minority, and Low vs High income. And most importantly, that all those divides fall in the same regions .

Trump performed low in almost every demographic except the majority of white, no-degree, middle class workers. This is why the media (which is largely composed to college-degree having areas) as well as urban areas (which have higher incomes and diversity on average) are collectively shocked at the result.

Consequently, the states where that divide is highest are Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan, and Pennslyvania, where a lot of retired and uneducated workers have still seen their incomes stay low after the recession due to being left behind and unable to change careers due to lack of education.

This is a case of campaigns built on everything good that a person “should” want (smarter, wealthier, citizens that are more diverse) not being reflective of what a majority of people still are: uneducated, poor, and white.

Hilary had huge (>20%) margins in major cities and urban areas that didn’t help her at all because of the electoral college.

Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer > EL_ULY
11/09/2016 at 15:27

Just keep being smarmy if if makes you feel good. It’s not productive to our society going forward for everyone to be hunkered in and lobbing grenades back and forth. I would love to have an actual discussion on issues, but it’s not worth it.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > EL_ULY
11/09/2016 at 15:27

Isolationism, now at the micro level near you!

I’ve learned it’s often better to have a drink or a drive, rather than trying to talk sense into a stone.

Brian, The Life of > Xyl0c41n3
11/09/2016 at 15:28

Elizabeth Warren would have mopped the floor with Trump. This was complacency on the part of Dem leadership. We didn’t have to lose last night.

Brian, The Life of > Chasaboo
11/09/2016 at 15:30

No. I’m done with fear, too.

EL_ULY > Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer
11/09/2016 at 15:35

I’m literally not even trying homie. Going forward with our society isn’t the best choice of words at this moment lol. But again, not choosing any side here. I just see it being down to the individual in real world/everyday situations.

EL_ULY > Out, but with a W - has found the answer
11/09/2016 at 15:37

100% tru fax.

Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer > EL_ULY
11/09/2016 at 15:38

“not trying” then immediately takes another swipe. nighty-night.

EL_ULY > Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer
11/09/2016 at 15:41

Xyl0c41n3 > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 15:44

Absolutely. There was a lot about this election that “didn’t have to happen” or that took people by surprise.

Someone reposted a video from last year of a pundit (I forget whom) telling a panel to take more care, that Trump could secure the nom. This was still when there were about eleventy billion Republicans in the race. George Stephanopoulos was on the panel. He laughed, derisively and snidely. Dude is a perfect example of a Clinton insider, what with having served under Bill Clinton as his communications director and all. I can see how, in a world like his, a Trump candidacy and presidency seemed unfathomable.

I’m just saying, a LOT of POC and LGBTQ people weren’t as complacent. Some of us did try to raise an alarm or voice concerns. We were, as usual, ignored, even when — for the first time in a really long time — there was so much naked racism, misogyny and xenophobia on public display.

BigBlock440 > ttyymmnn
11/09/2016 at 15:49

and the real shame here is that I honestly believe that Trump has no interest in helping the people who elected him.

That’s the thing though, neither did Hillary.

shop-teacher > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 15:49

Very well articulated. I agree.

ttyymmnn > BigBlock440
11/09/2016 at 15:51

Economically, maybe, but she would have fought for social justice issues and the environment, where Trump will attempt to toss out the Muslims and gut environmental law to the benefit of developers and energy companies.

BigBlock440 > GhostZ
11/09/2016 at 15:54

So the highly educated, wealthy, minorities populating the cities couldn’t swing the election for her like the did for Obama?

cazzyodo > ttyymmnn
11/09/2016 at 15:55

Absolutely hubris.

There really was no other option out there and nobody striped up to the plate to counter that.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > ttyymmnn
11/09/2016 at 15:58

When a lot of people are worried about their next meal and retirement and the future of their kids, they don’t care about social justice issues. Do I think Trump is going to help them? No, but that’s why a lot of people voted that way.

Shane MacGowan's Teeth > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 16:03

This is the post that needs to be on the front page of all the main sites.

BigBlock440 > ttyymmnn
11/09/2016 at 16:12

And what do developers and energy companies bring? Jobs, and jobs that pay more than minimum wage.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 16:15

Total disagreement with you on that one. I feel Bernie would have beaten him, and I am very opposed to his economics....

ttyymmnn > BigBlock440
11/09/2016 at 16:19

That is correct. There are trade offs for everything.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Xyl0c41n3
11/09/2016 at 16:28

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I agree that many issues plaguing poor white voters and poor minorities are the same, but I feel like the approach to solving each group’s problems is different (which is a problem). For many minority groups, the discussion revolves around righting historic wrongs through affirmative action, investments in urban areas, and preferential educational programs, along with immigration reform. The (noble) goal is to give people who had chances to succeed due to poverty and poor education, or new immigrants, opportunities to move up in society.

This doesn’t help the poor rural white family who hasn’t had a good job since the local XYZ factory shut down 10 years ago. They’re stuck in small towns with no opportunity, living paycheck to paycheck, seeing what tax dollars they pay spent on people who are different from them, on programs they don’t qualify for. These are the same people they’re competing for jobs with when they have to leave their small towns and move into larger cities or towns. Meanwhile, the media and politicians tells them to stop being so close minded and ignorant, when the world that they grew up in rusts away and they’re left behind.

I think it’s easy to be pitted against people in similar circumstances when high profile social and economic programs are often focused on urban areas and minority groups. That’s not to say that minorities and immigrants have it easier than poor whites, but when poor white workers grew up in a world where they or their parents lived the middle class lifestyle that they no longer have, the fact that their suffering has a much lower social profile makes it easy to fall into the bunker/victim mentality. I think if politicians treated poverty as more of an economic issue, rather than a social justice or identity politics issue, you’d have poor white workers and poor minorities much more unified. Then again, who’s to say politicians want the country’s working poor unified?

Brian, The Life of > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
11/09/2016 at 17:21

That’s ... pretty much what I said.

Pickup_man > Brian, The Life of
11/09/2016 at 17:28

This seems like a well thought out and rational post, so I will very carefully share share my thoughts as a rural midwestern christian (Catholic even). I hope I don’t regret it.

I feel confident in saying that most people in my area of the country are fairly centered politically, we lean liberal on most social issues, but are very conservative economically. While we may not agree with issues such as gay marriage, we don’t believe that their rights as a human being, and a citizen of this country should be infringed upon. There are other issues where we differ, but in general, I feel like most are fairly centered. When it comes to economic issues, our area of the country is filled with small businesses, family farms, and they are the lifeblood of our communities, and higher wages, taxes, and regulations have very real, and very hard effects on these businesses. So when it comes to political affiliations therein lies what I would say are three major problems.

The first. In general, urban people, and people who live on the coasts, do not understand the way of life outside of a city even remotely. They base their thoughts and decisions around how people, businesses, and regulations work within a largely populated area. This is understandable, but what works in the city, doesn’t always work outside of it. Urbanites also tend to be overwhelmingly liberal, ie. Democratic.

The second. These Democratic urbanites feel that what is good for the city is good for all and pass regulations based upon this, without having first hand experience, or an understanding of how it affects people outside of the city. I have seen first hand some of these trends, and regulations, squeeze and hurt small businesses, and family farms to the point where they barely get by, or go out of business completely. There have been many proposals by the Democratic party that would destroy many small businesses and farms. Due to these policies, thoughts, and regulations, many of us can’t support the Democratic party without the very real possibility of it bankrupting us. Because of this we are usually overwhelmingly Republican, which brings us to the third problem.

There is clearly a higher percentage of bigots, racists, xenophobes, misogamists, etc. that side with the Republican party. We don’t want to be associated with those people, but in order to stay afloat, we usually need to. In this age of if you’re not with me, you’re against me, we then get labeled and judged as being the same type of people. All this does is create a bigger divide between us.

In the end I think that the vast majority of this country wants more equality and rights for everyone, but because the two party system is so ingrained into this country, and those two parties are so divisive on those issues what it all comes down to self preservation. For most rural people self preservation usually means siding with the Republican party, and taking the issues with the party as undesired, but necessary, side effects.

At least that’s the way I see things. If anyone views things differently I would love to hear your thoughts so long as the conversation remains civil. I try my best to be as open minded as possible but I will not entertain someone who isn’t open to listening to, and respecting my thoughts and ideas, even if you don’t necessarily agree with them.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Xyl0c41n3
11/09/2016 at 17:38

Today it was that a “cunt” would never cease to be defined by anything other than her husband’s moral transgressions while that same woman’s opponent who has done the exact same thing in regards to cheating is being lauded for his “authenticity.”

I agree with most of your post, but disagree with this because it implies sexism in what I think is a very valid criticism of her and I’ve been seeing this line of reasoning employed kind of alot. It’s not that she’s being defined by what bubba did (and an affair isn’t the issue - I’d consider that no one’s business), it’s that she chose to stand by what he did, participate in the destruction and slut-shaming of the women who brought credible allegations of assault and coercion against him over a sustained period of time, and then turned The Donald’s identical behavior into pretty much the entire focal point of the end of her campaign. That’s her own doing and it’s both patronizing and blatant hypocrisy. It’s not that she’s being criticized for the something that The Donald isn’t getting blamed for. It’s that she made it the issue and that turned alot of people off. I didn’t vote for the first time in my adult life. My parents didn’t vote for the first time ever in their adult lives. There were alot of people who took the claims against Bill Clinton seriously back then and view Team Clinton the same way many people view Team Trump now. One’s just a fresher wound.

GhostZ > BigBlock440
11/09/2016 at 18:06

It’s more that she lost the confidence of a section of white, low income pro-union democrats in rust belt states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. people that Obama still held. She did better in blue states than Obama, but those votes do not count because of the electoral college. Having a 10% higher lead in NY than Obama gave her no electoral votes.

The wealthy, educated minorities (and whites) in cities already had a majority there. What she lost were the rust belt states that were pro-Obama and all switched to Trump, despite all the polls suggesting they weren’t going to.

GhostZ > BigBlock440
11/09/2016 at 18:11

Often times they’re jobs that also come at the cost of raising prices and slowing down economic growth. A lot of the concern for rust belt states is that NAFTA takes their jobs away, even when the economy is doing well (like it is now). But tariffs and reduced trade with those countries is going to cause inflation and slow down the economy, resulting in more lost jobs than before.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
11/09/2016 at 23:52

The sexism is real. My next door neighbor actually said “I’m not racist, but I am sexist. I won’t vote for a woman president”

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
11/09/2016 at 23:54

More or less what I’ve been saying. Clinton/Gore taking on the NRA brought us 8 years of Dubya Bush.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Party-vi
11/09/2016 at 23:57

Arrogance, more like.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer
11/10/2016 at 00:04

It is as unfathomable to me that anyone could vote for Trump as it is that the DNC could put Hillary forward as a candidate as if she could actually win or that a win would do anything but entangle the country. I have three daughters and this guy is POTUS (elect) and brags of grabbing women by their pussy and people still vote for him. Women, evangelicals ... As if what? He’ll actually deliver something other than a conservatively-flavored status quo? Get him and his pals richer? Turn dead, weed-overgrown rural Pennsylvania towns back into happening industrial mini-meccas? Seems implausible to me, but we’ll be finding out. But like another Oppo pointed out, they may as well vote for him because they’re going to lose either way.

Peace, Yo.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer
11/10/2016 at 00:08

I had a lengthy discussion with a Black woman friend of mine today and man, do we have different worldviews. She can’t sleep because she is worried about her autistic adult son getting shot by police because he’s to “slow” to holer back, “Yessir, three bags full!” That so much of America would vote for someone so blatantly racist and misogynist just makes her ill with dread. Our big disagreement was whom to blame. I’m mad at the DNC and the Clintons. She’s mad at dieingenuous Berners and people who said they’d never vote for Trump and did so anyway in the privacy of the voting booth. Trump is correct, in my opinion, about the system being rigged.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua
11/10/2016 at 08:23

I’m not saying that sexism isn’t real or that it didn’t play into the result. I’m saying that singling this argument out as a double standard or sexist is not necessarily accurate and smears alot of people who have always taken sexual assault seriously.